Another hate article

Why am I not amazed? Another hate Israel article in Opednews?

Talk about how people are treated? Ask Maronite Christians or Coptic or any the Orthodox Christians, but where they will not be overheard; ask them how they are treated by a government controlled by Islamic Mullahs.

You talk about how women are treated in the USA while defending Palestinian Muslims? Ask the dead women who were murdered by their own husbands or sons just for speaking to a man on a public street. Ms. Pillsbury-Foster, do you have any idea what are "honor killings" in Palestine? Have you ever written anything criticizing these things? No just another hate Israel article on Opednews.

I will again not be surprised by comments attacking Israel with not one word against Hezbollah or Hamas. Destroy Israel today, the Jews tomorrow. No, sorry. Israel will still be here tomorrow, and as long as Israel is around, Jews will be relatively safe around the world. Have you not noticed? No pogroms outside the old Soviet Union Empire since 1948. Slit a Jew's throat and get your throat slit. What a change from the previous twenty-one hundred years.

by pratliff94 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 970 comments) on Sunday, June 10, 2007 at 8:12:30 AM
 

What Americans Need to Know

Your profile says, “0 Articles, 0 Quick Links, 583 Comments, 0 Diaries Don'pigeon hole me or sterotype me “

When you comment but remain anonymous the question to be considered first is who you are and why you are spewing the same trite and asinine assertions not grounded in fact in a forum for the objective consideration of issues. We'll get to that in a moment.

The fact is that Palestine is a sovereign nation under a slow motion attack by a group no different from the Evangelical-Armageddonists here in the US. The two groups cooperate and support each other. In each case they use a manufactured 'theology' of very recent origin that they then claim justifies mass killing and thievery under color of authority.

Neither group could have gotten any traction without the backing of Big Oil. If that rag-tag and socially marginalized group of secularized Zionists who planned this debacle had wanted to go to someplace not in close proximity to all that lovely oil they would still be sitting around the Bronx in coffee houses whining and annoying their wives or mothers when they went home.

In the same way the likes of Pat Robertson would be preaching to a clutch of folks living in trailers in Georgia or, if he followed his political inclinations, trying to get jobs writing campaign speeches for city council races in Memphis, Tennessee.

Not that I have anything against people who have hobbies that are not remunerative. I have lots of friends who spend time in online games, participate in Society for Creative Anachronism, and so forth. But the fantasy world of Zionism and the End Time Idiocy belong in the same category.

Using Zionism as an excuse to grab someone else's property (Palestine) is like claiming you have the magic Ring from the Lord of the Rings and therefore are special. In the real world we have title searches. Did anyone making those claims have any documentation?

And about the holocaust. Get over it. The Armenians went on with their lives without whining and demanding that everyone and anyone, none of them even alive when it happened, provide restitution. If there was to be restitution it was Germany who owed it – and not just to the individuals and families of those murdered who were Jewish, to the Pols, the Russians, the Gypsies, and all the other people they murdered horribly.

The fact is you and those associated with you have made a practice of dehumanizing Palestinians, 'niggerizing' them as a matter of fact so to make their murder acceptable. Palestinians are people; they live, when you let them, they love, laugh, cry, and care for their children as well as they can.

For one I am tired of being polite about this incessant, ongoing self-dramatization. For most of my life I thought, “they just need more time to heal.” Now I know that the ones who continue this tirade of self indulgence are either that, self-indulgent and need to be slapped silly or have a secondary agenda and are using the essential kindness and decency of ordinary people to stifle protest. It is typical bully behavior and it has to stop.

Join SCA. Get a life. And get out of Palestine.

by Melinda Pillsbury-Foster (141 articles, 1 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 121 comments) on Sunday, June 10, 2007 at 10:46:27 AM
 

Ms Foster

There is nothing anonymous about me. I think you are lying if you have not read my profile and you comment proves you have. Your typical argumentum ad hominem is duly noted.  My profile under my name is very clear. I have not written any articles and do not intend to write any as of now. But what in the world does that have anything to do with my argument; however, I would not expect you to know the laws of debate, and if you knew, I would not expect you to observe the laws of debate or any other laws.

I will face off against your anti-Semitism with my whole being as long as you write such trash. I have faced off against the KKK, the Skinheads, the American Nazi Party, and all the other hate groups the very same way since I was in Selma in the sixties. You are small potatoes when it comes Governor Maddux and his kind.

You know as well as I do that Fatah was founded on the first basic premise of "driving Israel" into the sea. Hezbollah and Hamas were both founded with the express purpose of destroying Israel and ruling "ALL OF GREATER PALESTINE." You are lying if you say you do not know this.

You can spit all the hatred against Israel you wish, but know that you are going to be called down on it, and if you are not woman enough to take it, quit writing you articles of hate.

All Hamas has to do is go to the UN tomorrow to say, "We recognize Israel's right to exist as a Sovereign State, we denounce all terrorism. We are willing to sign a treaty opposing all violence against Israel and are willing to build an independent state to live peacefully with Israel." It is not going to happen. You know that and I know it. Neither Saudi Arabia nor Iran will permit it to happen.

Your own words tell who you are and what you are about:

Second paragraph of above article:

"This is the ugly reality that America has tolerated. It is an ongoing genocide that began in Palestine in 1948 and which has continued, an open secret to which Americans remain largely oblivious, as children are used for target practice by Israeli soldiers and peace workers are mangled."

Here is your fifth paragraph in your article. Your own words are both ludicrous and untrue. The films on the news releases were not staged and tell the truth what you are lying about:

"It has been claimed by many that Palestinians celebrated when they heard about the attacks on the Twin Towers. Not only was this untrue, it was an intentionally fabricated lie rolled out using film from an event years before almost immediately. Our anger stilled potential protests and the questions we should have then asked." 

I noticed that you mentioned not one word about the terrorist activities which you seem to approve of so gleefully. You mention not one word of the twelve Muslim nations invading Israel the moment they declared statehood in 1948. You never mentioned one world about Israel being forced from their lands in 70 CE (BC). After all, if we can go back sixty years, let us go back two thousand.  

You have no idea with whom I have associated myself with or against. I dislike Likud about as much as I dislike Bush and attitudes like yours. The drive to destroy Israel produces the radicals of Likud just as the radicals of Likud produces Hezbollah and Hamas.

When I criticize the Palestinians, I try to temper it with the brutality of Israel. You never temper yours with anything. It is the way of hate. My dislike for the likes of Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, James Dobson, Richard Land  is well known and very upfront. I find their attitudes not much different than the demeanor in this article.

by pratliff94 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 970 comments) on Sunday, June 10, 2007 at 5:58:03 PM
 

Name is Pillsbury-Foster

Dear Phil,

I did a google search for your unusual name and found this posted on one of my previous articles.

“Melinda, don't slow down, don't stop!

Melinda,

Darn it! I have a full day of work tomorrow. I decided to look through my email and then to run down the menu. I saw your article, read the first paragraph and you have me hooked.

I have to get my sixty-six year old three heart attack body in bed, but good grief, all I can think of right now is, I want more. Why did you quit? Please do follow up articles. This has been the most encouraging secular thing I have read in months and months. Where can I find the back issue of those editorials?

May the Lord bless you and keep you from all harm.
Phil.”

 Thanks, nice comment. The Iconoclast is a great, courageous publication, isn't it? I give credit where it is due and smack down where it is needed. Read my past articles on the NeoCons at my blog. How the NeoCons Stole Freedom.

Now on to the business at hand.

Being Jewish is not some sort of get out of jail free card. This kind of hysteria never did more than cause me to zone out for a while until I started to notice the parallels and relationships between Big Oil, location, and the use of silly mythologies to justify really outrageous behavior. That is disturbing.

I have no dog in this fight personally, however, I know many of those individuals who are publicly identified as NeoCons.  I personally know one of the people who was there listening when Rove, Reed, Robertson etc. planned their take over using the low end Southern churches.  He hasn't published yet but probably will in the not too distant future.

Even well written mythology is not a justification for stealing and killing. Zionism and Armageddonism is mythology, it should not be used to try to determine land rights. I also like Star Wars but that, too, is fiction.

I actually examined the question you bring up regarding the conquest of Israel by the Roman Empire in 70. That might give you a claim to land near Rome, not in Palestine after nearly 2000 years. Titles have limitations. Also, no evidence of genetic descent has been rendered. The genome project would probably not be helpful in this regard since the population in Israel at the time was subjected to genocide. The very tiny number of survivors returned to Babylon and mixed with those who had never returned. Did Jews who abandoned their heritage hundreds of years previous have any claim even then? I would say no. It is more likely that the displaced Palestinians do possess the heritage and so have a valid claim in this regard.

Italy has some really nice land.

Since I am of Celtic descent I may have a claim to some part of the Silk Highway to China or parts of southern Britain under the rationale you are using. But the question of land ownership in these terms brings into focus the divergence of Western ideas regarding real estate as opposed to, say, native American ideas, that the Earth owns herself and individuals using that land are in a stewardship relationship with the Earth, to which each of us will necessarily return. We all do.

Ideas are the human artifact we use to live together. It is important to remember that ideas are not facts. The nation is an idea built up so that people can use common institutions and so reduce their transaction costs and afford to invest in the future. Reliable courts, customs, and institutions are stabilizing. Stability promotes prosperity and is good for raising babies. Historically, churches provided a large part of that social – cultural context until just a couple of hundred years ago. It was the melding of thought and observation that gave rise to science.

All faiths were challenged by the advent of science beginning, for my people, in the mid 1700s.  That is when Puritanism started to shift towards the spin off religious viewpoints that eventually became the Transcendental Movement. My people were already highly suspicious of organized religion because of the Trials in 1692.

Understanding the ineffable in a world that begins using the new tool set of science was hard on all religions. Darwin, you know. Each major Western religion, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam began going through a period of adjustment. Interestingly enough, each demonstrated a reaction to the new tools of science with a retreat to literalism. Zionism, Armageddonism, and groups like the Hezbollah and Hamas are theological literalists that began by being subsidized by, surprise, the US as tools for destabilizing the Middle East for Big Oil.

Liberal American churches and many Jews, and many Islamics went the other way, exploring their faith paths to spirit in the context of science instead of seeing the two as incompatible. That is when Theosophy ushered in the Eastern element, last quarter of the 19th Century. Interesting twinned divergence there.

My family stayed Congregationalist and I was in fact raised in the Congregationalist Church though I thought I was Jewish for a while until I realized I was not going to get a Bat Mitzvah .  My best friend had one, she was Jewish and lived next door. The confusion was understandable. They also had a Christmas Tree but got presents for a whole week. Sort of ironic she went on to become a Scientologist.

There are several things that human beings from all cultural backgrounds through time share. One is a common understanding of motherhood. We share that with other mammals as well. Fatherhood is different and has different significance in various cultures.

The other thing is a common body of experience with the esoteric, an understanding of spirit that reaches beyond life and the material world. Illumination experiences happen, for instance, in all people from all faith backgrounds. Those are remarkably similar cross all cultural boundaries. Those are individual experiences extending understanding only to that individual. People who experience that kind of thing also change their behavior and their understanding of the world. They become more compassionate, more empathic, more loving.

Those are actions discernible by observation to those around them. People like Pat Robertson say one thing and do another. They are performers who supply the hunger of those searching for meaning in a world of uncertainties. What they supply is illusion. Each of us finds connection through our own spiritual journey; that is an individual experience, first, last and always..

As happened with the Hatfield and McCoys when these things start a slugging match ensues. But in the case of Palestine it never should have started because there was no valid claim to territory. Zionists should have asked for some choice land in Germany, like I said. The rise in emotional intensity and volume does not change the facts. What should astonish us is how little reprisal there has been from the Palestinians. The Hatfield's and McCoys took these things seriously. Of course, they were the descendants of Scots; a very war savvy culture. I have that descent on my mother's side.

I hope if and when America is invaded we do a better job.

God Bless, and I mean it.

by Melinda Pillsbury-Foster (141 articles, 1 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 121 comments) on Sunday, June 10, 2007 at 7:43:24 PM
 

Ms Melinda

You are correct. Ideas are not facts. Theories are theories by definition including the Darwinian Theory of Evolution. 

Fact: I believe the earth is about twenty some billion of years old, but it is a theory and my theory and a theory is a theory by definition.  

Fact: I am an Evangelical Christian and am very comfortable with my world view. 

Fact: Israel is a nation and will be nation in the foreseeable future. Israel is going no where. 

Fact: I agree that being Jewish is not a "get out of jail free card." I know of no one who claims it is. 

Fact: Fatah and Hamas as well as Hezbollah have sworn the destruction of Israel. Fatah has moderated their position. Hezbollah and Hamas have not. 

Fact: Islam did change with the Industrial Age and Renaissance, Christianity did change with the Reformation and is still changing. Islam by and large refuses to change and is at war with all things modern. 

Fact: I was born in Pike County, Ky. My grandfather was as the County fair where the McCoy outbid the Hatfield for the pig; the Hatfield waylaid the McCoy, killed him and took the pig. The feud had nothing to do with the pig. It had everything to do with class warfare. The McCoy's were more bottom people who were wealthy and fought on the side of the CSA in the Civil War. The Hatfields were more poor mountaineers who fought for the USA. Each side lost so many people during the war, the grudges were seething below the surface just waiting for something to happen. I am a Hatfield. I left Pike County where the feuds started when I was in grade school. I still consider myself a Kentuckian though I am ashamed how Republican the state has become.  

Fact: I would ask you to go to the Encyclopedia (Wikipedia will do) and pull up "The United Nations Partition Plan Palestine (United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181) and read it.

Fact: Jordan, Egypt and Syria took a large piece of Palestine for themselves and annexed them to their own territories. I would suggest they give those back to "Palestine" and the area "Palestine" would own would be twice the size of Israel with more than enough land for all. The United States will not pressure the UN to force the three countries to do that but sends much more financial support to Israel's enemies such as Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, Iran under the Shah, and Pakistan. Everyone seems to forget about the US support to these countries and concentrates only on Israel.   

Fact: I would suggest you pull up the UN partition map and look at the demographics. There were many more Jews in the present land of Israel than there were Muslims. Look at map for yourself. This area was to be partitioned between Muslim and Jews living in the land. Jerusalem was to be under international control. In the 1948 War, Trans-Jordan which had the largest and best army in the area and was supplied by the British grabbed half of Jerusalem called the Old City and what we know call the West Bank, Gaza and more. In the 1967 War, Israel defeated Jordan captured all of Jerusalem, the West bank and Gaza including the Sinai Peninsula. Israel gave almost all the territory back except Jerusalem and the Golan Heights.   

Fact: Where in all of history has a victorious nation given back territory won in battle as Israel has done. Never as far as I know. Consider what Russia did at the end of WW II,; what France did at the end of WW I and what Britain did at the end of each English/French War. At one time France had a larger and vaster Empire than Britain, but it was taken by England and never given back. It is called "the spoils of war" syndrome.  

Fact: Israel is here to stay. She needs to be open in making peace with the Palestinians. The Palestinians are here to stay. They need to recognize Israel and stop all incursions and violence toward Israel.  

Fact: Criticism toward one must be balanced with criticism toward the other. 

Fact: I meant every word  of my comment about your previous article. It was a good article. I do not like this article which does not mean I do not like you.

by pratliff94 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 970 comments) on Monday, June 11, 2007 at 10:05:21 PM
 

Time is long

I was away for a week and so did not see your comment before tonight. Each of our lives has a logic appointed by God. Sometimes we learn and sometimes we don't. I would not bet on a long run for Israel. That is not something I want or don't want. It is a prediction based on observation and on these pesky visions I keep having.

They are in place because of enormous subsidies from us. We are bankrupt. No one else will lift a finger to protect them; they have antagonized the world community. They cannot protect themselves. Their neighbors despise them and have grown to dislike us, too.

Unstable situations find a stability through rapid correction. That is life and life is often very unpretty.

Your cultural background included retribution. Mine did not. Along with that descent, direct from Robert the Bruce, I am a descendant of more than 9 survivors and more than that number of victims of the Salem Trials. In 1711 some of the survivors were granted reparations, the only time in human history.

When the Trials were ended by the intervention of Governor Phipps the accusors threw themselves at his feet, begging for protection. They were projecting what they would have done, given the hideousness of their actions. There was not ONE act of retribution, only the law suit. Rebecca Nourse, also a relative, died requesting that there be no retribution then or later.

Cultures are both different and persistent. Cultures are comprised of interrelated behavioral strategies that define what we think of as ethnic values and character. To get the right flavor of this you have to think of them not as right or wrong but as pro-survival and anti-survival, long term positive for the creation of cultural capital and destructive of the same capital. Not having moved to make peace with its neighbors places Israel in the anti-survival category.

Your characterization of a group of very diverse cultures sharing a religion, islam, with one simplistic set of values is not compelling. Those who call themselves Christian are also diverse in values. Notice the difference between your ancestors and mine.

My prediction in the Middle East is that Israel will start a war with Iran. It will be preemptive and unwarranted. This will happen when America is distracted by its own internal conflicts and Israel and the area for a long ways around there will no longer be inhabitable. The death and devastation will persuade some people that Armageddon has come. Those people do not understand the Message and Mission Christ gave us.

The impact from that will affect the health of people across the world in birth defects and environmental problems that will last for centuries. There will be a die off of a percentage of the Earth's species and wide spread famine among humanity.

Lots of things will change radically.

My spiritual beliefs are all based on my personal spiritual experiences. Those were life altering. I follow the Master and try to do what He wants. Tough work that makes a sense of humor a real asset. 

I like your comments because they are interesting. I would probably like you if I knew you. Blessings. Melinda

by Melinda Pillsbury-Foster (141 articles, 1 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 121 comments) on Thursday, June 21, 2007 at 3:52:14 AM