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Tag(s): AIPAC; Bush Crimes; Bush Enemy Of Democracy; Bush Enemy Of Human Rights; Bush Idiot-in-Chief; Bush Liar-in-Chief; Religion; Religion And Values
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June 20, 2007 at 19:28:38

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No offense, but isn't it about time for the Catholic Church to put up or shut up?

by W. Christopher Epler (Bill) Page 2 of 2 page(s)

www.robkall.com

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And the Catholic Church? Maybe a few sermonettes and pamphlets about how religion should never speak about social evil.

And here we thought the ESSENCE of the teachings of Jesus Christ was all about compassion and love and that our core responsibility as a Child of God was to acknowledge and deal with our abandoned, wounded, and dying brothers and sisters.

Apparently the cassock people have a "politically correct" version of Jesus Christ in which wounded bodies (and countries) are things to be stepped over while chatting about social pap.

I vote for the first Jesus.

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W. Christopher Epler (Bill)

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www.theliberationofrealism.blogspot.com

A liberal American, PhD mathematician, bipedal Earthling.

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12 comments

Professor Bagnolo is a Renaissance man: Cultural Anthropologist, Architectural designer, painter, writer, novelist, theologian. As a child prodigy, abed with polio for almost two years, with an off the charts IQ, reading at the graduate level by 5th grade, offered an opportunity to skip three grades at age 8.Later He was a recipient of an Art Institute scholarship at age 11, a Ford Foundation Fellowship in Anthropology and in Painting and a merit scholarship in art, and was appointed a Graduate ...

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Professor Emeritus Peter BagnoloProfessor Bagnolo is a Renaissance man: Cultural Anthropologist, Architectural designer, painter, writer, novelist, theologian. As a child prodigy, abed with polio for almost two years, with an off the charts IQ, reading at the graduate level by 5th grade, offered an opportunity to skip three grades at age 8.Later He was a recipient of an Art Institute scholarship at age 11, a Ford Foundation Fellowship in Anthropology and in Painting and a merit scholarship in art, and was appointed a Graduate ...

to see more of bio, click on member name

W. CHRIS

I agree with you about the present pope, but the previous one, on international TV, when he encountered Bush and Laura, humiliated him, castigating him for the attack on Iraq, just as he did Bush One, saying he "...Bombed these poor people back into the Stone Age..." and urged America to stop the embargo. Bush sat holding Laura's hand, looking as though he need to puke or hide somewhere under a bed or in a closet. That pope, went to nations where priests, ministers and nuns, were being jailed and murdered and condemned the actions of those who were committing mayhem upon the people, even in his tottering old age. These fellows which become pope are often conservative and do not necessarily represent the views of their world congragation (recall the (Fathers) Berrigan brothers and a good many priests and renegade nuns of the Viet Nam era)?

There are scattered across America, and I am certain elsewhere, a good many priests, and ministers, who have taken Bush to task, among them the writer Father Greeley. There are also those priest’s, brothers, and nuns, those who take the vow of poverty and chastity, who KEEP those vows. Unfortunately a few who do not get all the publicity. I sit on the financial board of directors of a missionary group of dedicated men and women, who live in poverty and have dedicated their lives, as did Mother Teresa and others, to helping the poor.

I have more than once castigated this fascist-appearing pope, I have sent him emails asking him questions about his support, in 2000 while he was still Cardinal Ratzinger, and in 2004 as pope, of GW Bush, on the Vatican site, to which he has never responded. My now famous painting and articles in which all the prime neo-con's portraits adorn the faces of those on Michelagnello's Last Judgment and my predictions concerning the distant future of the pope and Pat Robertson and, more importantly, then, immediate future of Jerry Fallwell written and posted 5-13 07, 2 days before his death.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/2/opedne_professo_070513_the_evils_which_brou.htm

My website in which the art can be seen that appeared in:
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_professo_070525_neo_cons_in_hell_21.htm

Is http://www.bagnoloart.com
Enter the site, navigate the across the top of the page to the EXPERIMENTAL button, CLICK IT, scroll down 4 rows on left click on picture to blow it up and see the portraits. The painting was begun in Spring 2005, completed in spring of 2006 and posted to the online gallery soon after. Everyone on it since has been fired, under indictment or investigation or (in Fallwell’s case,) dead. The pope was to have been also on it, but the indication was that a good many churches who liked the painting would not hang it if the present pope was on it, so I am doing a separate one with him on it, now for others.

by Professor Emeritus Peter Bagnolo (144 articles, 1 quicklinks, 95 diaries, 1311 comments) on Thursday, June 21, 2007 at 10:19:11 AM

A liberal American, PhD mathematician, bipedal Earthling.
W. Christopher Epler (Bill)A liberal American, PhD mathematician, bipedal Earthling.

fair distinction

Your distinction between the Popes is entirely fair and if I write a similar pices I'll make sure to make that clear. Frankly, I don't enjoy writing such pieces at all as I'd rather give religious institutions (all of them) the benefit of the doubt, but this pope, as you say, has an exceedingly suspect history. Also, we should never forget that fundamentalists come in all forms, very much including Catholic.

Thank you again for your useful information and sites.

Bill

by W. Christopher Epler (Bill) (261 articles, 53 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 640 comments) on Thursday, June 21, 2007 at 12:23:53 PM

Fair acknowledgement

I thank you.

Also, I have encountered Catholic Fundamentalism. It is born of a pre-Neanderthalic Consanguinity, of an IQ deprived male and a female who tends to read comic books and Cliff notes of the bible, written by students of the Fallwell-Robertson school of the See Dick and Jane Run theology.

Otherwise I liked your column.

by Professor Emeritus Peter Bagnolo (144 articles, 1 quicklinks, 95 diaries, 1311 comments) on Thursday, June 21, 2007 at 1:32:44 PM

Retired Educator Who Believes in a Constitutional Government of equal citizens.I d/p>I believe in the right of an active informed Citizenry to formulate responsible policy. I believe in hand counted paper ballots. We need small group meetings where a citizens can gather periodically give voice to their concerns, make decisions and act politically to implement their decisions.
Bucky the CommonerRetired Educator Who Believes in a Constitutional Government of equal citizens.I d/p>I believe in the right of an active informed Citizenry to formulate responsible policy. I believe in hand counted paper ballots. We need small group meetings where a citizens can gather periodically give voice to their concerns, make decisions and act politically to implement their decisions.

Look at its History

Where has the Roman Church been in South America these past four hundred years? Why all the poverty and squalor? Why the rotten class system down there? Why are we getting so many Latino illegals? What are they running from? The Roman Church will always go to bed with whatever authoritariaqn power is in office and become its apologist.

Remember dictators like Pinochet? Peron? Batista? Salazar? etc. They were practicing RC's.

Where was the Pope during the Holocaust?

Remember Hitler? Mussoloini? Franco? They were practicing RC's.

If you consider Roman Church history you can see that it always goes to bed with authoritarian dictators.

See them for what they practice not what they preach.

by Bucky the Commoner (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 56 comments) on Thursday, June 21, 2007 at 1:36:51 PM

About me: *I am a Christian. One who believes in the lord, but also respects science (and other peoples beliefs and non-beliefs too). ...and I have no need to add the prefix "True" before the word "Christian", because either you are telling the "Truth" or you are not. *I have been married for __ years. I have a wonderful wife and two wonderful kids. *My web site is the work of one person. *I am a private individual. *I am not funded by any group. *I sincerely value human life (dem...

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RCGAbout me: *I am a Christian. One who believes in the lord, but also respects science (and other peoples beliefs and non-beliefs too). ...and I have no need to add the prefix "True" before the word "Christian", because either you are telling the "Truth" or you are not. *I have been married for __ years. I have a wonderful wife and two wonderful kids. *My web site is the work of one person. *I am a private individual. *I am not funded by any group. *I sincerely value human life (dem...

to see more of bio, click on member name

PetetheProf

I agree this was a great post with many good points and your comments were excellent and insightful, as well, and as usual. You had me, lol with the below comment.

"Also, I have encountered Catholic Fundamentalism. It is born of a pre-Neanderthalic Consanguinity, of an IQ deprived male and a female who tends to read comic books and Cliff notes of the bible, written by students of the Fallwell-Robertson school of the See Dick and Jane Run theology." - PetetheProf

by RCG (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 348 comments) on Thursday, June 21, 2007 at 4:50:08 PM

"Bucky "

Can't answer your rhetorical question, I was not there then. I speak of individuals, and my family in Italy rebelled against the hierarchy, and often(One of my many rebellious ancestors was Duke Bagnolo, who organized the Albigensian Heresy, another, St. John Leonardi was a canonized Saint.

I, as a man, a scientist, and a believer, detest dogma, and I operate on my own, I do not believe in Generalizing about people's ethnicity, religion, skin color, gender or neighborhood-I find bigotry and generalization among the most despicable of self-degrading faults, only slightly more repugnant than disrespect and bad manners. As my career started, with all the academic honors I held I was offered all sorts of jobs with great benefits and high position, but until I decided to marry, I cooked and ate in soup kitchens, and still do so whenever I have time.

Some men who run organized religions are no more moral than those who run governments, or corporations. An Irish Cardinal whose offices were in the basement of the Vatican ran the underground railroad sneaking Hebrews in and through to safety at risk of his life, so did many of my uncles aunts and cousins, when I was a child, fourth Generation American. Many of my family in Italy during WWII planned to and did fight in the underground as did one of my mentors who now lives here. Nonetheless, today I have many friends who are of German extraction.

In South America, the very Order, in which I serve as board member, and several others, which priests honor the vow of poverty, work side-by-side with the poorest of the poor, helping them. These men have dedicated their lives to helping the poor, living under the same conditions they do.

Although I detest the "Christian Right" of (which they are neither), I do have many friends of various Protestant faiths who feel the same way. I have friends-close one's, which practice the Hebrew Faith, one of my teammates (Baseball) is a Buddhist, and two others are black-Muslim.

I generalize about no one. Most men of honor are well aware of what SOME people related to us, or of our faith, or of others, have done, and do not at all like what some have done, which if anyone had taken the time, as good researchers do before they comment, to read many of my columns, you would find my criticism of THIS pope, strong and often. On the other hand, I am not completely perfect, myself, nor are any one I know. Lastly, I see little difference between some of the things about which you complain to me and religious bigotry, the very evil that has been used as an excuse for genocide and is rampant against our Muslim Brothers and sisters right now, just as it was against our Jewish brothers and sisters. Shall we now condemn all Catholics, lumping them together, as Hitler did the Jews and now the Christian Right does the Muslims and Arabs?

It is easy to blab bigotry, but since you have asked me the question, what have you done for the poor in South America or anywhere else? And what have your ancestors done to break up stupid dogma, what I and mine have done is matter of public record and can be easily Googled, "Bucky"
I am Professor Emeritus Peter Bagnolo and I hide behind no pseudonym.

by Professor Emeritus Peter Bagnolo (144 articles, 1 quicklinks, 95 diaries, 1311 comments) on Thursday, June 21, 2007 at 4:54:48 PM

rcg

GRAZI! Thanks!

Pete

by Professor Emeritus Peter Bagnolo (144 articles, 1 quicklinks, 95 diaries, 1311 comments) on Thursday, June 21, 2007 at 8:49:58 PM

Know me by what I write."Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightening. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters.This struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, and it may be both moral and physical, but it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quiet...

to see more of bio, click on member name
williamKnow me by what I write."Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightening. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters.This struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, and it may be both moral and physical, but it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quiet...

to see more of bio, click on member name

CATHOLIC AND CHRISTIAN STATEMENTS AGAINST IRAQ INVASION

In May of 2001 Pope John Paul II made the following statement with regard to the United States supported messianic Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported Israeli government's nearly half year of brutal occupation and absorption of the Palestine beyond the 1967 internationally recognized borders

"It is time to return to the principles of international legality: the banning of acquisition of territory by force, the right of people to self-determination, respect for the resolutions of the United Nations and the Geneva convention."

The following Christian religious organizations opposed the United States invasion and occupation of Iraq by written statements on the dates mentioned:

Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (August 30, 2002)
United Methodists (August 30, 2002)
The Episcopal Church, USA (September 6, 2002)
National Council of Churches U.S.A. (September 12, 2002)
United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (September 13, 2002)
The World Council of Churches (September 19, 2002)

Statement of 100 U.S. Christian Ethicists (September 23, 2002)

"As Christian ethicists, we share a common moral presumption against a preemptive war on Iraq by the United States."

(signators)
Shaun Casey, Wesley Theological Seminary
Stanley Hauerwas, Duke University Divinity School
Lee Camp, David Lipscomb University
Gerald Schlabach, University of St. Thomas
John Mark Hicks, David Lipscomb University
Tobias Winright, Simpson College
Rodney Clapp, Brazos Press
Michael G. Cartwright, University of Indianapolis
D. Stephen Long, Garrett-Evangelical Theological Seminary
M. Therese Lysaught, University of Dayton
Dennis M. Doyle, University of Dayton
Cheryl Sanders, Howard University Divinity School
Margaret R. Pfeil, University of Notre Dame
Kelly S. Johnson, University of Dayton
Laurel M. Jordan, Middlebury College
Michael J. Gorman, St. Mary's Seminary & University
Sandra Yocum Mize, University of Dayton
Thomas Massaro, S.J., Weston Jesuit School of Theology
Fr. Allyne L. Smith, Jr., Mercy College of Health Sciences
Elizabeth M. Bounds, Candler School of Theology, Emory University
D. Brent Laytham, North Park Theological Seminary
Brad J. Kallenberg, University of Dayton
Roger Betsworth, Simpson College
Nancey Murphy, Fuller Theological Seminary
William T. Cavanaugh, University of St. Thomas
Rex Hamilton, Rochester College
Beth Newman, Baptist Theological Seminary at Richmond
Daniel M. Bell, Jr., Lutheran Theological Southern Seminary
Nancy Duff, Princeton Theological Seminary
Gabriel Palmer Fernandez, Youngstown State University
Ronald H. Stone, Pittsburgh Theological Seminary
Peter J. Paris, Princeton Theological Seminary
William Schweiker, University of Chicago Divinity School
Glen Stassen, Fuller Theological Seminary
Rev. Scott Langford, Decatur Church of the Nazarene
Gene Outka, Yale University
John Langan. S.J., Georgetown University
Jerry Gentry
Andrew Gilman, Harvard Divinity School
David S. Cunningham, Seabury-Western Theological Seminary
J. Denny Weaver, Bluffton College
Christine E. Gudorf, Florida International University
Cynthia Crysdale, Catholic University of America
Christopher Dreisbach, St. Mary's Seminary & University
William M. Tillman Jr., Hardin-Simmons University
Ted Koontz, Associated Mennonite Biblical Seminary
Gayle Gerber Koontz, Associated Mennonite Biblical Seminary
Michael J. Gorman, St. Mary's Seminary & University
Max L. Stackhouse, Princeton Theological Seminary
George Hunsinger, Princeton Theological Seminary
Brian D. Berry, College of Notre Dame of Maryland
Scott R. Paeth, Albertson College of Idaho
Ray C. Gingerich, Eastern Mennonite University
Sondra Wheeler, Wesley Theological Seminary
Carol Robb, San Francisco Theological Seminary
Peter Gathje, Christian Brothers University
Tokunbo Adelekan, Eastern Baptist Theological Seminary
Karen Lebacqz, Pacific School of Religion
Emilie Townes, Union Theological Seminary
Eric Mount Jr., Centre College
Fr. Scott A. Benhase, St Philip's Church, Durham, N.C.
Michael M. Mendiola, Pacific School of Religion/Graduate Theological Union
Duane K. Friesen, Bethel College
Stacy L. Patty, Lubbock Christian University
Robin Steinke, Lutheran Theological Seminary, Gettysburg
Mark Thiessen Nation, Eastern Mennonite Seminary
Rev. Marvin Lindsay, John Calvin Presbyterian Church, Salisbury, N.C.
Barbara Green, Churches' Center for Theology and Public Policy
Martha Ellen Stortz, Pacific Lutheran Theological Seminary
Paul Lewis, Mercer University
William Everett, Andover Newton Theological Seminary
Richard Gula, Franciscan School of Theology
Mikael N. Broadway, Shaw University Divinity School
Andrew S. Pak, Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary
William Kooi, Oklahoma Christian University
Joel James Shuman, King's College
David Little, Harvard Divinity School
Darryl Trimiew, Colgate Rochester Crozier Divinity School
Chris Noyes, First Presbyterian Church, Beaver Falls, Pa.
Roger Shinn, Union Theological Seminary
Virginia Landgraf, Princeton Theological Seminary
Daniel Maguire, Marquette University
Allen Verhey, Hope College
Fr Paul Surlis, St. John's University, N.Y.
Michael Duffey, Marquette University
Stephen Charles Mott
Judith Mayotte, Marquette University
Thomas Hughson, Marquette University
Jame Schaefer, Marquette University
Patrick Carey, Marquette University
James Childs, Trinity Lutheran Seminary
Franklin I. Gamwell, University of Chicago Divinity School
Steve Bouma-Prediger, Hope College
Tim Beach-Verhey, Davidson University
Richard B. Miller, Indiana University
Alan Johnson, Wheaton College
Miguel De La Torre, Hope College
Richard B. Hays, Duke University Divinity School
Edward R. Sunshine, Barry University
James W. Lewis, Anderson University

by william (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 5 comments) on Saturday, June 23, 2007 at 12:28:17 AM

CATHOLIC AND CHRISTIAN STATEMENTS AGAINST IRAQ INVASION

In May of 2001 Pope John Paul II made the following statement with regard to the United States supported messianic Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported Israeli government's nearly half century of brutal occupation and absorption of the Palestine beyond the 1967 internationally recognized borders

The following Christian religious organizations opposed the United States invasion and occupation of Iraq by written statements on the dates mentioned:

Statement of 100 U.S. Christian Ethicists (September 23, 2002)

"As Christian ethicists, we share a common moral presumption against a preemptive war on Iraq by the United States."

by william (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 5 comments) on Saturday, June 23, 2007 at 12:31:46 AM

A liberal American, PhD mathematician, bipedal Earthling.
W. Christopher Epler (Bill)A liberal American, PhD mathematician, bipedal Earthling.

cherry picking from a dysfunctional orchard

Godspeed to these honorable people, but this can nevetheless be seen as cherry picking from a dysfunction orchard.

by W. Christopher Epler (Bill) (261 articles, 53 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 640 comments) on Saturday, June 23, 2007 at 6:58:25 PM

TRY CHERRY PICKING ANTI-INVASION FROM JEWISH ORGANIZATIONS

Chairman: Harold Tanner Exec. Vice-Chairman: Malcolm Hoenlein

52 member organizations of major American Jewish organizations that seeks to strengthen the U.S.-Israel Alliance, and to protect and advance the security and dignity of Jews abroad.
ORGANIZATION PRESIDENT EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
American Friends of Likud Julio Messer, J. Philip Rosen Salomon Vaz Dias
American Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors Benjamin Meed Sam Bloch
America-Israel Friendship League Mortimer B. Zuckerman Ilana Artman
American Israel Public Affairs Committee Timothy Wuliger Howard Kohr
American Jewish Committee Harold Tanner David Harris
American Jewish Congress Jack Rosen Neil Goldstein
American ORT, Inc. Robert Sill Paul Firstenberg
American Sephardi Federation Leon Levy Vivienne Roumani-Denn
American Zionist Movement W. James Schiller Karen Rubinstein
Americans for Peace Now Pat Barr, Luis Lainer Debra DeLee
AMIT Sondra Sokal Marvin Leff
Anti-Defamation League Glenn Tobias Abraham Foxman
ARZA / World Union North America Philip Meltzer Rabbi Ammiel Hirsch
B'nai B'rith Richard Heideman Daniel Mariaschin
Bnai Zion Michael Lazar Mel Parness
CAMERA Leonard Wisse Andrea Levin
Central Conference of American Rabbis Rabbi Martin Weiner Rabbi Paul Menitoff
Development Corporation for Israel Irwin Hochberg Gideon Patt
Emunah of America Marcia Genuth Carol Sufian, Shirley Singer
Friends of the Israel Defense Forces Marvin Josephson Eliezer Hemeli
Hadassah, Women's Zionist Organization of America Bonnie Lipton Ellen Marson
Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society Neil Greenbaum Leonard Glickman
Jewish Community Centers Association Jerome Makowsky Alan Finkelstein
Jewish Council for Public Affairs Michael Bohnen Hannah Rosenthal
Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs Norman Hascoe Tom Neumann
Jewish Labor Committee Stuart Appelbaum Avram B. Lyon
Jewish National Fund Ronald Lauder Russell F. Robinson
Jewish Reconstructionist Federation Richard Haimowitz
Jewish War Veterans of the USA Bernard Becker Herb Rosenbleeth
Jewish Women International Millie Sernovitz Gail Rubinson
Joint Distribution Committee Eugene Ribakoff Michael Schneider
Labor Zionist Alliance Jeffry Mallow Ari Chester
Mercaz USA Evelyn Seelig Rabbi Robert Golub
NA'AMAT USA Lynn Wax Susan Schwartz
National Committee for Labor Israel Jay Mazur Jerry Goodman
National Conference on Soviet Jewry Harold Luks, Robert Meth Mark Levin
National Council of Jewish Women Marsha Atkind Sandra Garrett
National Council of Young Israel Shlomo Z. Mostofsky Rabbi Pesach Lerner
Rabbinical Assembly Perry Rank Rabbi Joel Meyers
Rabbinical Council of America Rabbi Hershel Billet Rabbi Steven Dworken
Religious Zionists of America Rabbi Simcha Krauss Mandell Ganchrow
Union of American Hebrew Congregations Russell Silverman Rabbi Eric Yoffie
Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America Harvey Blitz Rabbi Dr. Tzvi Hersh Weinreb
United Jewish Communities James Tisch Stephen Hoffman
United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism Judy Yudof Rabbi Jerome Epstein
WIZO Evelyn Sommer
Women's American ORT Carol Linch Alice Herman
Women's League for Conservative Judaism Janet Tobin Bernice Balter
Women of Reform Judaism Helene Waranch Ellen Rosenberg
Workmen's Circle Martin Krupnick Robert Kestenbaum
World Zionist Executive, USA Kalman Sultanik
Zionist Organization of America Morton Klein Milton Sussman

by william (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 5 comments) on Saturday, June 23, 2007 at 7:48:07 PM

A liberal American, PhD mathematician, bipedal Earthling.
W. Christopher Epler (Bill)A liberal American, PhD mathematician, bipedal Earthling.

food for thought

Hmmm, food for thought. I'm very impressed with your data and I thank you for sharing it. All these big picture social currents are hard to integrate. I keep trying to walk that razors edge where I address neutral facts (albit often disorientating and serious) without stirring up counterproductive hostility. I suppose that's wishful thinking on my part. There's so much at stake now in our bleeding country and the bleeding Middle East, that it transcends coffee conversations. I hope we ultimately have similar values and intutions, however much the passing tensions come and go. To say the least, it's an imperfect world with resurrected neo Nazis popping up everywhere, and all we can do is try to keep the faith that the best of us will connect.

Bill

ps I'm sorry is this seems a bit general, but it's been a long day . .

by W. Christopher Epler (Bill) (261 articles, 53 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 640 comments) on Saturday, June 23, 2007 at 8:31:50 PM